Oren Eini

aka Ayende Rahien

Oren Eini

CEO of RavenDB

a NoSQL Open Source Document Database

Get in touch with me:

oren@ravendb.net +972 52-548-6969

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Copyright ©️ Ayende Rahien 2004 — 2025

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RavenDB - High-Performance NoSQL Document Database
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Nov 13 2013

The RavenDB 3.0 Mystery Features

time to read 1 min | 57 words

So far, we have shown the following features:

  1. HTML5 Studio
  2. OWIN / Web API based infrastructure.
  3. Native Java API

I think that you can guess that RavenDB running on Voron is one of the others remaining features, but there are two more in the pipeline that we haven’t talked about…

Can you guess what they are?

Tweet Share Share 23 comments
Tags:
  • raven

  previous post next post  

Comments

Khalid Abuhakmeh
13 Nov 2013
15:26 PM
Khalid Abuhakmeh

RavenFS is definitely one of them.

Phillip Haydon
13 Nov 2013
15:29 PM
Phillip Haydon

Microsoft bought RavenDB and it will now be completely free?

OH, Linux Support?

Christopher Smith
13 Nov 2013
15:30 PM
Christopher Smith

I'm thinking a Mono/Xamarin (and thus mobile-enabled) version of some kind. Makes sense given that he's putting all this effort into his own storage layer.

Khalid Abuhakmeh
13 Nov 2013
15:56 PM
Khalid Abuhakmeh

@Phillip Not to derail the topic of this post (so I will :P), I wonder why Hibernating Rhinos hasn't gone to VC firms and asked for extra funding to help drive initiatives harder and get more resources? I know there is a large startup culture in Israel that would probably jump all over RavenDB.

FoundationDB just raised $17 million in Series A funding and I would argue that RavenDB is a more mature product. https://foundationdb.com/blog/foundationdb-raises-17-million-series-a

Ayende Rahien
13 Nov 2013
15:57 PM
Ayende Rahien

Khalid, VC funding comes with a lot of extra strings attached. For now, we have a team of 4 devs locally and another 5 world wide just dedicated to RavenDB work. It is enough.

Khalid Abuhakmeh
13 Nov 2013
16:00 PM
Khalid Abuhakmeh

I have worked in start ups and outside interests want to see a return on their investment, so I agree with you that the strings can trip you up.

I was just wondering if you ever thought about it. I'm sure you have a special folder in your email for all the VC emails that come pouring in daily. I'm guessing the resource you are most struggling with is not money, or resources, but time. No amount of money can buy you time.

Ayende Rahien
13 Nov 2013
16:04 PM
Ayende Rahien

Khalid, I spent a lot of time thinking about this. But it would cause a fundamental change in the company culture and values. We really want to just be a place that creates great software, not somewhere where you have to answer to an investor with an agenda of their own.

It helps that if we got a few million dollars, we would have hard time handling them. We would probably need to hire a lot more people, train them, etc. That is something that would effectively stop us for about 3 - 6 months, minimum.

The current growth strategy calls for a much slower, easier to handle, growth curve.

Khalid Abuhakmeh
13 Nov 2013
16:12 PM
Khalid Abuhakmeh

I think you guys are doing a great job, so keep it up.

Eric Smith
13 Nov 2013
16:13 PM
Eric Smith

It's definitely going to be Linux support. :-)

Judah Gabriel Himango
13 Nov 2013
16:38 PM
Judah Gabriel Himango

Wow - a native Java API. This is awesome; I am very happy to see Raven spreading its wings outside the .NET world. Woot wooot woot!

I'm an old Java dev myself before learning the ways of C# :-), but Java is still huge, especially in the enterprise. This is a great step for Raven.

dCrunch
13 Nov 2013
18:57 PM
dCrunch

Integration with Meteor JS framework! If not it is worth checking out http://www.meteor.com/

It is growing very rapidly and uses Mongo db as default but provide integration hooks for other db.

Matt Johnson
13 Nov 2013
21:02 PM
Matt Johnson

I know it's not likely, but I will take a guess anyway. A change to the licensing model? Raven needs to be more aligned with other NoSQL offerings such as Mongo and ElasticSearch. Give the product away, sell services and support. I don't think it would affect too much, since the product is already open source.

Of course, I respect your desire to make money and feed your families, etc. But I've talked to many developers who would be willing to try it out on smaller projects in their organizations, but are held back by the license fees. Even though they are relatively small fees in comparison to a traditional RDBMS, many companies are already invested in those licenses so new projects often don't have a direct cost associated.

Literally, the comments I've heard first hand are: "Raven looks great, but we're already invested in SQL Server so there's no way I can even pitch a Raven-based P.O.C. to my boss."

Not sure how you would transition since you have existing paid customers. Maybe they would get a credit towards consulting services or free training materials or something.

Ayende Rahien
13 Nov 2013
21:05 PM
Ayende Rahien

Matt, Support & Services model are very labor intensive. And from our experience, won't provide us with the numbers we need for provide sustainable business model.

Pablo Vivera
13 Nov 2013
21:12 PM
Pablo Vivera

Is there any repository to see the Java API?

Matt Johnson
13 Nov 2013
21:12 PM
Matt Johnson

What about the idea of an "express edition" of some type that can still be used in a commercial scenario? Or at least relaxing the definition of commercial to just active production? Maybe somewhere between. I'm just saying, I think it would generate more revenue in the long run if it were less restrictive.

I look forward to the day when people define themselves as a "Raven shop" like they do today with other db's. Couldn't something be done about getting them their sooner?

Ayende Rahien
13 Nov 2013
21:17 PM
Ayende Rahien

Pablo, Yes. See: https://github.com/ayende/ravendb/tree/New3/Raven.Client.Java

Ayende Rahien
13 Nov 2013
21:17 PM
Ayende Rahien

Matt, That is why we have the Basic editions for.

Chris Marisic
13 Nov 2013
21:35 PM
Chris Marisic

@Matt licensing is something Oren has completely hit a grand slam with. Other than not ignoring hyper threading cores properly, and possibly with licensing staging servers.

"Literally, the comments I've heard first hand are: "Raven looks great, but we're already invested in SQL Server so there's no way I can even pitch a Raven-based P.O.C. to my boss.""

These are people are literally worthless as a customer. Balking at spending several hundred dollars, or $84 dollars a year. These customers will never provide money.

The money for tools is so ridiculously insignificant compared to the cost of time it's not even funny.

There's no reason these companies need to jump in at Enterprise, there are offerings all over the board. Or they could just go with a company like RavenHQ.

Dev costs are always free, so they could still always do POC, they only need to license to launch the app.

Daniel Lang
13 Nov 2013
21:50 PM
Daniel Lang

Oren, I haven't touched RavenDB for many months, even though I had a pretty strong love with it as you probably know. The reason is that I've switched entirely to Mac OSX, Scala and Ruby. I don't even own a Windows machine anymore...

I've been working extensively with both MongoDB and CouchDB since then. None of them gave me comparable productivity. Seeing RavenDB follow me to my new world would make me so happy!

So good luck to you, your business and your product!

Matt Johnson
13 Nov 2013
22:22 PM
Matt Johnson

Ok. New guess. RavenDB in the Windows Azure Store?

Afif
14 Nov 2013
06:40 AM
Afif

Index output is now a document collection that can be accessed from the database.

Damian Hickey
14 Nov 2013
12:03 PM
Damian Hickey

re: "I spent a lot of time thinking about this. But it would cause a fundamental change in the company culture and values. We really want to just be a place that creates great software, not somewhere where you have to answer to an investor with an agenda of their own." (This is partially also in response to Phil's post here http://blog.orangelightning.co.uk/2013/11/would-i-recommend-ravendb/ )

You are not talking to the right investors.

Given that I've been doing a bit of work for HR recently and that I've met/interacted with the team on several occasions over the years, I've too been pondering on the future of RavenDB and HR. I should start by saying that I mostly work on DDD/CQRS/ES apps so I get to use polygot persistence where RavenDB is used as a projection target, and my event stores are SQL backed(for now and the foreseeable future). That is, I'm not faced with the SQL/NoSql one-or-the-other question. Nonetheless, I understand the concerns above and in Phil's post.

I want (and the .NET world needs) RavenDB and HR to succeed. To succeed, imho, they need really to get bigger. I feel there are reaching an inflection point. HR with 9 devs and maybe a handful of other people just really isn't big enough to give comfort for the type of customer (I think) HR wants. The Bus Factor is 1 (maybe ~1.5). There is simply too much risk for a company (cough enterprise) to buy into completely depending on RavenDB for their data. Secondary / re-buildable data... maybe.

It's entirely possible to grow the company, satisfy the customers and have a great culture that builds great stuff. Look at JetBrains.

Also, the licensing needs a review. The ISV embedded, for example, is prohibitive. I don't understand how it can be more that a MSDN Pro subscription. Maybe if HR were bigger and there were a lot more customers, prices would come down...

I criticize because I care :)

Matt Johnson
14 Nov 2013
18:55 PM
Matt Johnson

@Damian - I agree with you 1000%. The tech of RavenDB absolutely rocks. The folks that seem interested in using it are those of us that like to live on the cutting edge. But I talk to a lot of people that just see it as a curiosity and not something their org could ever take seriously. Perhaps it is licensing, but I think you're right that it might have a lot to do with size of the organization as well.

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