Ayende @ Rahien

My name is Oren Eini
Founder of Hibernating Rhinos LTD and RavenDB.
You can reach me by phone or email:


+972 52-548-6969

, @ Q c

Posts: 6,026 | Comments: 44,842

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Andy Knight

"Instead only try to realize the truth: There is no spoon" - lol


All databases are [probably] persistent storage. All persistent storage is not database. Using the term database instantly recognizes the fact[?] that all databases use some form of SQL; where as persistent storage has no such recognition.

Petar Repac

Oren, are you saying that there is no "the most expensive part of an enterprise application" ?

The part that holds The Data. It seems like like ignorance.




  1. a comprehensive collection of related data organized for convenient access, generally in a computer.

If you store data in it then it is a database.

I would say that there is a database but there is no Database or DBMS... possibly...

Tobin Harris

I'm probably a few years behind you there!

But I find that I open SQL Studio about once every two weeks, rather than every time I open Visual Studio. I still know there's a persistent storage medium there, but most of the time I no longer really care if it's a RDBMS, an XML file store, a service layer, or whatever.

Chris Canal

I gave an NHibernate talk at my local user group on Tuesday and this is something I really tried to get across, there where a few confused looks and few smirks, but it went over better than I thought :)

Scott White

ORM Euphoria? I'd like to think I'm about there too. I tend to talk more in terms of objects, interaction and process flows.

Petar Repac

There is no silver bullet and I think ORM is not also.

It could cover 99% of use cases but what you do with 1% left ? Call DBA to help ? Or quit ignoring that there is an RDBMS and solve the problem there if it is the best/cheapest way to go ?


Does that also mean not stored procs and no triggers?

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