I mentioned that we are currently hiring for a junior dev position and we have been absolutely swamped with candidates. Leaving aside the divorce lawyer that tried to apply to the position and the several accountants (I don’t really get it either) we typically get people with very little experience.
In fact, this position is explicitly open to people with no experience whatsoever. Given that most junior positions require a minimum of two years, I think that got us a lot of candidates.
The fact that we don’t require prior experience doesn’t meant that we don’t have prerequisites, of course. We are a database company and the fundamentals are important to us. A typical task in RavenDB involves a lot of taxes, from ACID compliance, distributed computing, strict performance requirements, visibility into the actions of the database, readability of the code, etc.
I talked before about the cost of a bad hire, and in the nearly a decade that passed since I wrote that post, I hasn’t changed my mind. I would rather end up with no one than hire someone that isn’t a match for our needs.
Our interview process is composed of a phone call, a few coding questions and then an in person interview. At this point, given that I have been doing that for over a decade, I think that I interviewed well over 5,000 people. A job interview stresses some people out a lot. Yesterday I had to listen to a candidate speak so fast that I could barely understand the words and I had to stop a candidate and tell them that they are currently in the 95% percentile of people I spoke to, so they wouldn’t freeze because of a flubbed question.
I twitted(anonymously) about the ups and down of the process and seem to have created quite a lot of noise. A typical phone call for a potential candidate takes about 15 – 30 minutes and is mostly there to serve as an explicit filter. If they don’t meet the minimum requirements that we have, there is no point in wasting either of our time.
One of the questions that I ask is: Build a phone book application that stores the data in memory and outputs the records in lexical order. This can stump some people, so we have an extra question to help. Instead of trying to output the data in lexical order, how would you ensure that you don’t have a duplicate phone number in such a system? Scanning through the entire list of records each time is obviously not the way to go. If they still can’t think of a way to do that the next hint is to think about O(1) and what data structure would fit this requirement. On the Twitter thread, quite a few people were up in arms about that.
Building a phone book is the kind of task that I remember doing in high school programming class as a teenager. Admittedly, that was in Pascal, but I just checked six different computer science degrees and for all of them, data structures was a compulsory course. Moreover, things like “what is the complexity of this operation” are things that we do multiple times a day here. We are building a database here, so operations on data is literally our bread and butter. But even for “normal” operations, that is crucial. A common example, we need to display some information to the user about their database. The information actually come from two sources internally. One is the database list which contains various metadata and one is the active database instance, which can give us the running stats such as the number of requests for this database in the past minute.
Let’s take a look at this code:
The complexity of this code is O(N^2). In other words, for ten databases, it would cost us a hundred. But for 250 databases it would cost 62,500 and for 500 it would be 250,000. Almost the same code, but without the needless cost:
This is neither theoretical nor rare, and it is part of every programming curriculum that you’ll find. Further more, I’m not even asking about the theoretical properties of various algorithms, or asking a candidate to compute the complexity of a particular piece of code. I’m presenting a fairly simple and common task (make sure that a piece of data in unique) and asking how to perform that efficiently.
From a lot of the reactions, it seems that plenty of people believe that data structures aren’t part of the fundamentals and shouldn’t be something that is deeply embedded in the mindset of developers. To me, that is like saying that a carpenter shouldn’t be aware of the difference between a nail or a screw.
Rob has an interesting thread on the topic, which I wanted to address specifically:
And to the people whose 30 years experience never included ever needing to know those details, I have two things to say:
- Either your code is full of O(N^2) traps (which is sadly common) or you know that, because lists vs. hash is not something that you can really get away with.
- In this company, implementing basic data structures is literally part of day to day tasks. Over the years, we needed to get customize versions of arrays, lists, dictionaries, trees and many more. This isn’t pie in the sky stuff, that is Monday morning.