Ayende @ Rahien

Andres commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 13:21:43 GMT

It is faster and simpler than triggers and than non-intuitive queries like this: var order = session.Include("Customer.Id").Load

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:41:37 GMT

Why would this be beneficial?

Andres commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:32:35 GMT

That, maybe the includes and other denormalizations can be done by indexes.

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 10:58:22 GMT

Andres, While you can make this work, I am not quite sure what is the purpose. Especially in the context of includes.

Andres commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 03:30:41 GMT

What about index based join? Like this: Map: --------------------------------- from doc in docs where doc["@metadata"]["Raven-Entity-Name"] == "Products" || doc["@metadata"]["Raven-Entity-Name"] == "ProductInputs" select new { Code = doc["@metadata"]["Raven-Entity-Name"] == "Products" ? doc.Code : doc.ProductCode, Input = doc["@metadata"]["Raven-Entity-Name"] == "Products" ? doc.FirstInput : doc.Input }; Reduce: --------------------------------- from result in results group result by result.Code into g select new { Code = g.Key, Count = g.Count(), TotalInputs = g.Sum(x => x.Input ?? 0) }

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:01:05 GMT

Daniel, You can't say it is an implementation detail, not when the impact is making remote calls. And you can't disallow lazy loading, not when I consider this lazy loading as well: session.Load(order.Customer.Id); Hypertext docs are great, but you only read ONE doc at a time. With DocDB documents, you may want to access more than that

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:58:54 GMT

Daniel, Yes, that is pretty much the point. Because you want to be able to control this for each scenario. There is no one scenario that fit all

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:57:50 GMT

Daniel, And Customer has a reference to Company, which has reference to Products, which has reference to... In other words, you loaded the entire database. It isn't premature, it is something that you have to deal with

Daniel Steigerwald commented on RavenDB: Includes

Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:59:40 GMT

|This creates a misleading API, making people think that things are normalized when they aren’t. It suppose it is implementation detail. Remember that object with id contained in another object with id is stored twice is easy. |It is going to bring back ALL the problems associated with lazy loading (worse, it is going to bring back all the problems associated with EF 1.0 lazy loading). So disallow lazy load at all. I don't need it anyway. |It goes directly against the way I believe you should work with a document database. What's wrong with hypertext documents? They are still documents. Include is nice feature, but soon enough my code probably will be full of includes. PS: Maybe I overlooked something (or everything) ;) It was just written brainstorming :)

Daniel Steigerwald commented on RavenDB: Includes

Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:43:52 GMT

I hope I understand all consequences related to sql joins, especially lazy evaluated. I am still newbie, but as I see it, raven document database is about eagerness (as opposite to sql laziness). We have to create index before we can use it. Fine. We can put documents into db without scheme, super fine. So we should be able to load whole objects graphs in one step as well. This code: var order = session .Include("Customer.Id") .Load

Daniel Steigerwald commented on RavenDB: Includes

Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:19:53 GMT

I am not sure, if denormalized references are not actually premature optimization. Why should user care about minified models? I know, it's stored twice, still... Aggregate is class with Id public class Order { public string Id { get; set; } public string Name { get; set; } public Customer Customer { get; set; } } public class Customer { public string Id { get; set; } public string Name { get; set; } public string Email { get; set; } } What's wrong with loading Order with whole Customer? I suppose it's explicit enough. It should work also for storing. Instead of Hibernate default laziness, Raven can eager load everything. Maybe it is stupid idea, but I would like to hear your opinion.

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:35:55 GMT

oharab, That would make the default case (no includes) much uglier.

oharab commented on RavenDB: Includes

Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:34:48 GMT

If you changed the API slightly could you have the order like cowgaR suggests. var person=session.Get(Person).Load(); var person=session.Get(Person).Include("Customer").Load();

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:36:29 GMT

cowgaR, Regarding the method ordering. Sure, I would like that. Now make it work when you don't include stuff as weel. var person = session.Load(Person) var person = session.Load(Person).Include("Customer") Regarding the out param, good idea

cowgaR commented on RavenDB: Includes

Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:33:01 GMT

first thing, changing the order of chaining methods would bring IMO __much better meaning of what you were trying to accomplish. var order = session.Load ).Load

jdn commented on RavenDB: Includes

Fri, 13 Aug 2010 00:41:28 GMT

Thanks for accepting override patches.

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:32:41 GMT

Jonty, That might be the case, yes, and it might also be the case that it is a problem with the way we model stuff. But that is a features that a lot of people wanted

Jonty commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:19:42 GMT

"A common case would be if you need to notify the customer about delay in the order" That sounds like a search screen where the rows would have the email in them already - ie a different document.

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:09 GMT

Charles, I wouldn't support it, I can't think of an actual scenario where you need it in a document database.

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:09:12 GMT

Benjamin, Exactly the same. Include("Orders")

Benjamin commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:07:54 GMT

Hi Ayende, Good stuff! With reference to Brian Vallelunga's question, how does a query (to preload all orders) look? Thanks!

Charles Strahan commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:57:32 GMT

Very neat, Ayende. How would you support "including" a chain of references - such as Order.Customer.BestFriend.Etc? -Charles

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:23:44 GMT

Brian, This scenario just works

Brian Vallelunga commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:59:57 GMT

Any chance we'll be able to include a collection of Ids? I think it might be useful in situations like this: public class Customer { public string Id { get; set; } public string[] OrderIds { get; set; } } I'd want to be able to preload all orders here.

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:59:53 GMT

Tucaz, In short, no. See the discussion on the model changes required to make this work, and why I don't like them. The easy way to handle this is to use an ambient session, which is the general recommendation anyway. And I _like_ the fact that you need to take an extra step. You don't want to be able to reference stuff outside your own aggregate easily. See the discussion on Root Aggregates in DDD

tucaz commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:54:30 GMT

I´m not a NoSql user yet, but I have a question. If the type of Customer object in Order class is a DenormalizedReference is is possible for one to expect getting the full customer when calling for order.Customer somehow? I understood that you can pre-fetch the Customer and then access it through Session.Load but then we would need to 1) Keep a reference to the session object in Order instance to encapsulate the GetCustomer() method to return the full Customer or 2) Let the caller know that order.Customer will never be entire filled and if he wants it he will need to call Session.Load(order.Customer.Id). I´m think of a way to both communicate the user that he has everything available when he needs and still don´t leak infrastructure aspects to the domain.

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:48:05 GMT

Jonty, A common case would be if you need to notify the customer about delay in the order

Jonty commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:23:37 GMT

What is an example of a case where you would need the email from the orders? Wouldn't you create a new document for that purpose? This seems like it might be encouraging bad design decisions.

Adam commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:36:57 GMT

Great feature, love it, thanks

Ayende Rahien commented on RavenDB: Includes

Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:33:02 GMT

Adam, Yes