Ayende @ Rahien

Owen commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:16:59 GMT

"I was doing this while I was flying" Jet pack or glider? Its a wonder you could type and fly at the same time.

Dmitriy Nagirnyak commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:29:54 GMT

Sorry, should be "time OR quality".

Dmitriy Nagirnyak commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:29:13 GMT

Actually this post reminds me about the "time of quality" and "I need this to work NOW" things. It seems that time definitely wins over quality here.

Mr_Simple commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:25:22 GMT

> no IoC, no testing, nothing No, tell me it aint so Joe!

Richard Dingwall commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:47:59 GMT

Article starts with YAGNI and ends up writing a whole new CMS from scratch! Ayende!!

Dmitriy Nagirnyak commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:08:58 GMT

Ayende, Your own website framework? Hmm. What are the reason for starting it from scratch if there are some of them already available? - Exercise? - Lack of extensibility? - Wrong architecture? - "Just want my own" thing? - others? Cheers.

Andrew commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:54:59 GMT

@Ryan, Setting up a WCF service is much more difficult than setting up a web form that talks to a DB, how anyone could see otherwise is beyond me. I know we all hate Web Forms, yada yada yada, but if you need to just setup a few pages, it's dead easy and much faster than MVC, a WCF service or any other method to deliver content. Hence why it makes perfect sense in this "I'm using YAGNI to the letter of the law" experiment. But the reality is, you rarely have a project where you can work in this pure YAGNI way, since there almost always is requirements such as make it testible, make it easy to maintain, make it SOE friendly, etc. so working in ASP.NET Webforms a poor choice for the job. But there does come a time where a project is "All we need is one page that shows data in a grid", it can be done in literally 10 minutes with a WebForm. It's all about using the proper tool for the job.

Ryan Riley commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:40:40 GMT

@John That's a fair point. I just don't see very many people heading that way when they speak about WebForms, so it doesn't cross my mind to allow for that possibility. Your point about jQuery is also valid, but that really depends on what you are trying to build. If you are building a client app and want to feed it data (i.e., not really just building web pages but a real app) the true nature of HTTP is served best by the web service + js approach. But that will lead us into a debate about whether or not REST is simple or complex, what does REST really mean, etc., and I find that I'm generally in the minority on those ideas. Perhaps it's best I just don't mention it. ;)

John Farrell commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:31:54 GMT

@Ryan Your forgetting, as most people do, that you can have a classic asp/php experience with webforms all you want. You don't need controls, events, or viewstate to use webforms. And of course a WCF is much harder to consume with jquery than spitting out the html I want with beestings and doing a get request the page I just made.

Ryan Riley commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:25:32 GMT

@John So are you saying that creating a WCF service to expose data that could be picked up client-side by js (e.g. jQuery) is harder than WebForms? I suppose my problem is that I never liked the WebForms abstraction and find it completely mangles web development. Therefore, WebForms, to me, will always fail YAGNI because of its complicated abstractions and the need to turn off ViewState everywhere. I'd rather saddle up with classic ASP, PHP, or Ruby.

John Farrell commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:11:42 GMT

@Ryan MVC makes you care about a lot more things than webforms. If out of the gates your just trying to render some database rows to a html page right clicking to add new page and then <% bee-stinging %> it out will be faster than setting up a controller, view, and routing.

Ryan Riley commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:34:42 GMT

@Rafal I second Jonatan's comment!

Jonatan commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:10:05 GMT

@Rafal Comment of the day ;)

Rafal commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:05:49 GMT

@Ryan Because with WebForms you know you ain't gonna need it

Torkel commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:37:13 GMT

Any plans to open source it?

Ryan Riley commented on Applying YAGNI in Impleo

Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:19:50 GMT

I suppose I'm still wondering, how did WebForms appear as a result of YAGNI? I realize that's the original ASP.NET platform, but MVC seems simpler to me, and even simpler would be starting with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript (or, heaven forbid, classic ASP) with some AJAX.