http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660Given Kobe's background, I think its pretty clear why its ended up why it has, back when it started it quickly turned into a learning experience for the creator, he certainly put effort in to find 'experts' in each field (we're you one of them ayende?) to give advice. What was clear however, and made me lose interest really quick with the series, was that it was relatively amatuer, and more of a sandbox of mashed together learning. A sample app should be something intermediate (not too advanced, not so simple that its useless), and absolutely needs to be done by someone who has 'mastered' the techniques being used.. certainly not somebody learning them theirself. Blind leading the blind? http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment17http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment17Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:55:34 GMTBest line ever Oren: The “repositories” in Kobe has so many responsibilities that they are just shy of having a singularity around them =D Cheers! http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment16http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment16Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:03:28 GMTCan anyone recommend any GOOD sample apps illustrating best practices for ASP.NET MVC? http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment15http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment15Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:23:56 GMT@Dave >>Maybe someone should start a sample blacklist. A list of applications beginners should avoid. Excellent idea http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment14http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment14Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:29:51 GMTThanks Duckie, that's the sort of feedback I'm after :) I totally agree, the shared view data sucks. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment13http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment13Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:20:51 GMTMy first real exposure to the MS community was via the ASP.NET MVC team. I feel they set a good example and genuinely want to make good code and more than that work at making good code. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment12http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment12Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:12:30 GMTI quite like a lot of Suteki - especially as it was written way pre-release of ASP.NET MVC ... I mentioned it as a good sample app in the first post Oren made on Kobe http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment11http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment11Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:38:50 GMTMike Hadlow > A quick look - Whats up with the strange approach to handle viewdata? [code.google.com/.../ShopViewData.cs](http://code.google.com/p/sutekishop/source/browse/trunk/Suteki.Shop/Suteki.Shop/ViewData/ShopViewData.cs) Thats a huge WTF imho. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment10http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment10Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:25:01 GMTSorry, this is blatent self promotion: Our little eCommerce application, Suteki Shop, has recently been added to the front page of the MVC Framework site, so I guess it qualifies as a sample app of sorts. Of course it's not from MS, but their endorsement will mean that people are going to be looking at it for ideas. It would be great (but at the same time a bit scary :-) if you could spare the time to take it apart... *ducks* [http://code.google.com/p/sutekishop/](http://code.google.com/p/sutekishop/)http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment9http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment9Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:45:15 GMT>> Who is going to pay for the time to build it? Don't make it free, use all your open-source Rhino components in it and sell it as a "How to use the Rhino Components?" (using etl / security / dsl / etc..) http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment8http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment8Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:32:14 GMTProgramming is a form of art or craftmanship where individual skills and creativity matter the most. Corporations employ mediocre specialists and mediocre managers, promote conformity and enforce procedures and standards that guarantee constant quality - I mean constant LOW quality. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment7http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment7Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:03:15 GMTHow much do you need? I'd donate as newbies coming to the mvc, tdd, orm, bdd, etc, etc arena are facing an ever-increasing mountain to climb that's getting harder to distinguish between what to follow, what's up to date and what's just plain rubbish. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment6http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment6Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:41:20 GMTThat's hillarious :). I think Ayende you can get paid by Microsoft. I somehow feel that Microsoft is paying people to write reference apps. This can't be a Microsoft team's work. If it is, it says a lot about team they have. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment5http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment5Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:40:44 GMTDoes Microsoft have more of these bad written sample applications? I often hear that they saw 'some' practice in a Microsoft application. Personally I find the asp.net MVC a good example how code should look like. It's stays very close to the SOLID principle. Maybe someone should start a sample blacklist. A list of applications beginners should avoid. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment4http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment4Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:40:26 GMTMaybe Microsoft should instead of releasing stuff like Kobe. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment3http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment3Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:38:58 GMTMarco, Who is going to pay for the time to build it? http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment2http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment2Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:22:12 GMTMaybe it's time for a Rhino-Mvc sample ;-) with all the Rhino components in it.. ps. i agree with your comments on Kobe.. http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment1http://ayende.com/3953/kobe-architectural-overview#comment1Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:20:00 GMT