http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660I wanted to mention that you can render partials in several ways. There is a good example of a controller extenstion that renders to a string. I blogged about it [www.vitaminzproductions.com/.../renderusercontr...](http://www.vitaminzproductions.com/technology-blog/index.php/2008/11/12/renderusercontrol-migration-from-aspnet-mvc-preview-4-to-beta/) The MVC team responded to my scathing blog post: [www.vitaminzproductions.com/.../aspnet-beta-is-...](http://www.vitaminzproductions.com/technology-blog/index.php/2008/10/22/aspnet-beta-is-out-and-im-screwed) bu indicating that you can use a different view engine for partials and pass a string writer so that you can then manipulate the output. I haven't discovered how to do that. I had been using MOnorail for some time and absolutely loved it. Microsoft created their slant on MVC, IMO, because there are alot of shops that would rather use supported software than innovate with open source. It sucks but its true. I've worked for a few of those. I embraced MVC because quite a few respected Monorail fans were impressed by the early demos. I love it. It takes all the harship out of web forms.... well, almost all. I'd like to see more support for alternate view engines and more public adoption. For some technical leads, they have to weigh the cost of educating new developers against the eventual gains that can be made. I'm glad to see mIcrosoft do something well. I agree with you that the Internal nonesense is frustrating. I'm very excited to see such quality open source communities and individuals (you rock ayende) converging around common interests and a passion for quality software and beautiful design. http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment16http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment16Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:41:54 GMTHas anybody tried Spring.Net MVC? I love the rest of the Spring framework but haven't really gotten to get to this part of Spring.Net. Any opinions? http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment15http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment15Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:37:25 GMTSo ASP.Net MVC is like MonoRail only not as good but with intellisense. I'll never understand why Microsoft bothered to create it, and I'll never understand why people are excited about it. I guess it's just not for me. http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment14http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment14Fri, 14 Nov 2008 04:47:01 GMTYes, M$oft has an obsesion with internal. See also VSDB SQL parsers. etc. Solution: CECIL + add InternalsVisibleTo your framework + no need to recompile the code. http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment13http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment13Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:27:23 GMTOh, and while I'm at it sealed isn't no better. Anybody who seals a class needs to be beaten repeatedly with a wet noodle. http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment12http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment12Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:30:29 GMTInternal is the devil. It's one of the most horrible inventions in the history of comp sci. Please ban it in it's entirety! http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment11http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment11Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:29:30 GMTwoohoo, roll on "ASP.NET Ayende"! (or should that be "MVC.Ayende"?) =) http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment10http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment10Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:24:35 GMTPhil, Trying to get an instance of a Page so I could mess around in its Control hierarchy. Basically, I wanted to apply a cross cutting UI concern across the entire site. That required me to be able to control the way Pages are created. http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment9http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment9Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:50:37 GMTYes I have to agree with your bit about too much use of internal (it's like herpes: once you use it, it never goes away). I have to say that I've almost come to the point that I am going to start adovcating that the use of "internal" as an antipattern. Maybe i've been infected by smalltalk after all this time :) http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment8http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment8Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:32:33 GMTWhy use this instead of Monorail, Brail, NVelocity, etc? http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment7http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment7Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:21:34 GMTHey Ayende, what were you trying to do with IBuildManager. I believe that's internal because there's a different extensibility point. If I understand the scenario, I can look into whether there's a way to do it or not. http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment6http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment6Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:13:42 GMTArg. Not move MVC stuff. I'm so tired of hearing about it now. 23 RSS feeds and every morning 70% of it's MVC. It seems like all these people who like the MVC pattern, are the same people who couldn't write a decent WebForm app to begin with... I'm gonna start unsubscribing from blogs. http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment5http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment5Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:41:14 GMTAspView egine for Monorail has Intellisence support. Could be ported to ASP.NET MVC. http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment4http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment4Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:23:51 GMTI was planning to do it... together with NVelocity, NHaml, Spark: they are all going to be featured inside my book on ASP.NET MVC. Btw: if you want a copy, just ask (in change of a review ;-)) http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment3http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment3Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:27:14 GMTSimone, Take a look at Brail http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment2http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment2Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:15:07 GMTI think the main problem of ASP.NET MVC is the WebViewFormEngine, which too tied to the underlying "legacy" webform model. But the good thing is that you are not forced to use it. Given your excellent abilty, when are we going to see a RhinoViewEngine? :) Of course if you don't use it you loose the help of the intellisense. I never looked at it: would it be theoretically possible to build an "intellisense provider" for custom languages to use inside Visual Studio? http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment1http://ayende.com/3692/on-asp-net-mvc-yes-again#comment1Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:13:54 GMT