http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660@Jimmy, I didn't get the Ayenda was saying the concepts shouldn't be understood, just how they got to be able to property implement the concepts is abstracted (i.e. they know and are implementing IoC , but they may not know it's Castle doing it...). http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment8http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment8Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:05:15 GMTI think you've touched on the essence of being a good software architect - create an environment in which it is easy for developers to succeed in creating good software. You cannot legislate good practices, because programmers are a stubborn bunch. You have to give them a "lazy" path whereby the easiest, most obvious thing is also (architecturally) the best. One team member who recently left us told me "I am dreading interviews, because I have been doing .NET development for 2 years, but I will not be able to answer questions about ADO.NET". I took this as both a compliment (because he was able to achieve so much with so little knowledge), and a warning that I should try harder to involve the team in the designing and coding the inner workings of the application. http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment7http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment7Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:58:59 GMTBut you've GOT to spend some time explaining the principles behind these concepts, right? Is the "easy environment" enough? When you teach your teams _how_ to build maintainable apps, do they also see the "why"? I fully understand lowering the barrier for entry, but does your team understand why ORM is good? This reminds me of the discussion that Dave Laribee and Scott Hanselman had at altnetconf. They talked about creating leaders instead of more followers. Leaders created geometric knowledge growth, while collecting followers limited you to linear growth. http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment6http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment6Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:26:30 GMThey, only one josh allowed here and I was here first. /kidding. -j (notice the different signature ;) http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment5http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment5Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:02:19 GMTIf you're talking about abstracting away the trappings that facilitate doing IoC, AOP, or ORM from the "average" developer, then I agree. i.e. a junior-to-mid developer doesn't need to know the ins-and-outs of NHibernate to use ORM on the project... http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment4http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment4Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:28:37 GMTJosh, Check this blog for past posts about it. http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment3http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment3Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:14:20 GMTExcellent observation, this also in my opinion one of the biggest reasons to put coding standards in place. It's amazing when I look back and think how much time I saw wasted because developers couldn't aggree where in a Source Control system their project should go. On a side note, can you expand on your feelings on CRM? I just narrowly escaped having to produce an application that would extend CRM, and am curious why you feel as strongly as you do. -Josh http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment2http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment2Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:09:26 GMT"the environment was setup in such a way that taking advantage of IoC, AOP and ORM was simply the natural thing to do" That's just begging for an article of it's own! [)amien http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment1http://ayende.com/3129/dont-make-me-think#comment1Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:56:01 GMT