http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660Twelve years ago I have hight tolerance for bad code, I didn't mind and keep going doing my thing fixing the bugs with the minimum changes needed to keep things working. As time pass my level of tolerance is getting lower and lower, I can't even left my own code along if I know that refactoring needs to be done. This is generally a good thing, but lots of times I found myself doing way more work that's needed. Later on I decided to fix the bug asap, and open a case in our defect tracking system to re factor later, this is working pretty well, since I can get patches faster and them do the refactoring one or two days later. http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment10http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment10Sun, 30 Dec 2007 08:48:04 GMTAlex, Checkout is not needed, I already had the code. Tests were not needed, I refactored the code, not changed the behavior. I could utilize existing tests. Writing code was mostly unnecessary, I mainly moved files and code around. Running tests doesn't take that much, but I wouldn't include it in the 15 minutes that I quoted. http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment9http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment9Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:57:21 GMTMy question wasn't about number of LOC's, it was about timing: - Check out - Write test - Build/Run Test see it fail - Write code - Build/Run Test see it green - Check in (Build/Run all tests) Everything for ~15 minutes. Plus some documentation that system has one more configurable parameter now. --- We have a lead developer on one of the projects with very "low pain tolerance". So low that she touches all of the code written by other developers. Sometimes it offends people, like: Dev: Why did you change the parameter of lambda from c to p? (Changed c => c.Name to p => p.Name) L.D: P stands for Person Dev: C was for Customer L.D: Customer can be Person or Company, c is misleading here: someone might think that c stands for Company or Corporate Customer Dev: Whatever... http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment8http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment8Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:28:05 GMTI meant "the other team members"; those who "got into that situation". http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment7http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment7Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:56:56 GMTPierre Henri, That is my project. I was the lead there for about 9 months with the same team. http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment6http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment6Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:08:06 GMTWhen I start working on an existing project with a relatively complex structure, my first inclination is to refactor it the way I feel it should be. Then I realize that I mostly made "cosmetic" changes and the reason I was feeling uneasy was because I wasn't used to the architecture yet. In your case, try asking to the developer of this project what they think of your changes; my bet is that they will also feel uneasy about them at first :) http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment5http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment5Sat, 29 Dec 2007 08:01:00 GMTAlex, not sure how to answer that. 170 KLOC or so, but I don't like this measurement. As I said, it was mostly modifying the way some key parts works. Routing them through Binsor and extracting a few interfaces. http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment4http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment4Sat, 29 Dec 2007 02:30:43 GMTWhat I do not believe is that all that you did took you 15 minutes. Just checking in the changes through the automatic build/test takes me 15 minutes or more. What size of project is that? http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment3http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment3Sat, 29 Dec 2007 02:01:52 GMTPersonally, I have a low tolerance for pain. Keeps my projects as simple as they can be (for having software involved) and makes them a joy to return to work on. http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment2http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment2Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:50:52 GMTPersonally I have a very high tolerance for pain. And I like it, not only can I get work done until I actually start feeling the pain. But I can look / re-use other people's code without having to do serious rewriting. That said when I do have to refactor I'm probably worse of then you :) http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment1http://ayende.com/3074/low-pain-tolerance#comment1Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:56:07 GMT