http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660Come to deep dark Africa, man. We're running a small (35people) quasi-agile house down here in Cape Town, SA. Well-aligned with some of the leading financial houses in South Africa, and therefore Africa, we're doing some pretty cool stuff. We even have our own ex-thoughtworks guy here too, so the technology stack will be familiar. CI, cruise, devexpress, subversion, resharper, C#, SQL. Its a short-term project gig, but 3-6months of Cape Town summer is certainly beats the hell out of MS. Its a no-brainer. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment52http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment52Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:43:42 GMTAyende, I just remembered this post and I've got it all figured out! Come to Austin, TX and work for us and we'll find you a nice Hebrew bride and you'll have an instant visa! http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment51http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment51Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:27:02 GMTHi Oren, i see everybody is trying to get you hired :) I think that decision should be took in an easy way... But now i would like to point out an idea, until you get another job... i think that after you leave We! you should come back to the idea about doing an Nhibernate on line course .... what do you think ? PS.: why not to come to Brazil ??? http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment50http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment50Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:05:32 GMTOren, I have been following your blog for awhile and I am a fan. All I can say is that the IT industry is in strong demands for technical people and this I can say for UK and US. I do agree with foobar that a degree will be a great investment/backup in the long run. But if your aim is to be filthy rich then forget corporate world and degree and start your own business. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment49http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment49Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:26:02 GMTMy god there are a lot of Thoughtwork fan boys on here. It's like a full on recruitment campaign, and they don't even do any decent .net development work anymore. Fowler loves Ruby too much. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment48http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment48Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:24:39 GMTReagrding visa issues UK, Australia and NZ should be alot eaier to move to compared to US. Money in UK is fantastic and lifestyle in Aus and NZ is great. If i was you i would be eyeing up thought works here in the UK ;) http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment47http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment47Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:25:01 GMTI congratulate you on making a brave decision, which I myself took a while ago. You are better off without the constant headache of SSIS, his dark brother SSPS and their drunk-trigger-happy (literally) uncle “MS CRM”. Know that relocation is a nice goal but it is one that is rarely materialized… Looking forward for the announcement of your next employer. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment46http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment46Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:50:07 GMTOren, It was great meeting you in Montreal. You will be in Canada again for the next dev teach. Vancouver is where I live. Wait till after dev teach to make your decision. Also, you will make way more money in Canada than you will in the US. At least for the next little while. I'd like to start a ThoughtWorks office in Vancouver. Maybe you could be a critical part of that! Adam http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment45http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment45Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:22:23 GMTI don't have any suggestion. I left my previous company for the exactly same reason - Microsoft wants my company to focus on providing BI solution/service instead of writing custom application. I can understand Microsoft's strategy. if you solve your client's problem by ASP.NET and SQL Server DB, they can only make money on Windows Server and SQL Server license. If you solve their problem by SharePoint and CRM, Scorecard, they can sell A LOT of money. We did what Microsoft told us to do. We developed the solution on SharePoint, we told client that they have to handle the SharePoint license with Microsoft directly. The result? They were angry when they learned the license model. Just like that I felt I became more and more salesman for microsoft instead of developer that provide congruent ideas. So, I left consulting. I am working with a company that build their own products. I earned not as much money as I used to be, but I am glad I made the decision. My point? Our problem is part of Microsoft's fault. I hope small/mid businesses will soon realize the hype of Microsoft SharePoint and BI ... Until then, keep your good work. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment44http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment44Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:10:49 GMTHi Ayende The company I have just started working for is a good one. Based in the UK, it's a small team with lots of enthusiasm and a solid green field project for the National Health Service just about to start. We are currenltly hiring and would love to have someone of your callibre aboard. If you are interested then drop me an email at daren.fox@waveform.biz and we can potentially take it further http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment43http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment43Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:09:27 GMTWe ( Case Management team ) are regular followers of your blog. We as a agile team use to discuss about your content daily and we are wishing you working in India. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment42http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment42Fri, 02 Nov 2007 08:43:53 GMTAyende, Startup is a must if you dreamed about it. As long as you can make your living, you should try at least once in your life :) I am still working hard trying to do it. Go to MS is good. Try to talk to Rob? MS looks bad recently, but its the people who will make the change. If MS CRM is that bad, go in and fix it, I am sure a lot of people will thank you. They need good people, and if they are willing to reward you properly, why not? http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment41http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment41Fri, 02 Nov 2007 08:34:53 GMTOff but ..., what about coming to India..., It might not sound financially damn good. But I can bet, you would not regret it in terms of technology. Your wish ne ways... no Visas worries .. for no degrees as well ... just pure technology. BTW, we are an agile team and my manager is a Scrum Master. Rest your wish. Just do drop me a 0 or 1 @ naik_sanket@hotmail.com I donot have a blog but read urs everyday. You are kind of an role model for me. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment40http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment40Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:42:03 GMTOren: Fly to Tijuana and take a few-hours walk north and you'll be in in no time with no hassle! Thousand of people do it every day. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment39http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment39Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:53:02 GMTHi Oren, I think if you apply for big companies like "ThoughtWorks", Microsoft and other then they will do anything to get you here. Just remember only to come here if you get green card or citizenship or else you will be a LION who is given bananas to eat! http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment38http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment38Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:32:12 GMTHi Oren, Have you tried to send your CV to ThoughtWorks? http://www.thoughtworks.com/ They are very proficient guys and do exactly what do you want to do: eXtreme Programming. I worked with them in the UK for Deutsche Bank about three years ago. Good luck! - Alex http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment37http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment37Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:00:42 GMTLuke, what are the details of that SQL generator? http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment36http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment36Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:27:53 GMTmabsky, Thanks for the information, I'm going to look into it. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment35http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment35Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:21:34 GMTHi Oren I've heard about some people in my country (Poland) getting O-1 visa (alien of extraordinary abilities/skills) and they didn't have any degree. They were just skilful hackers and there were companies in the US that wanted to hire them. Those companies even had their lawyers prepare all necessary visa application papers. Cheers! http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment34http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment34Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:12:06 GMTOren, you've built a good following through your blog because of the expertise and drive you've exhibited. No matter what or where, you should have no problems other than stupid possible visa issues. You should probably consider what and where you want more then if you can. Good luck. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment33http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment33Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:54:40 GMTThe instant I saw the post and the date, I knew there would be many replies. :-) It's a long shot, but you'd probably be very interested in some of the stuff my shop does. The fact that I just wrote a SQL generator to build SQL based on metadata objects that define what columns to pull and what criteria apply should pique your interest. It makes your really fancy criteria search forms (for which you say appending SQL would be a nightmare) are child's play compared to this. :-p Shoot me an email if you are at all interested. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment32http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment32Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:10:52 GMTThe decision, ultimately, is you and your families of course. As an independent consultant, you get to pick and choose your battles and of course they'll be no shortage of work for you. It's a little different lifestyle and you choose how to run it (work 6 months, take 6 off, or whatever). Starting a consultancy business might be good since Roy is leaving where he is and the two of you could be the dynamic duo. A startup is cool but only if you have a big bank account. Whatever you decide do what's right for you. If you want to come to Canada I'm totally looking for great Agile people to hire. I'm consultanting at an oil & gas firm, but we're pretty good as far as Agile and IT shops go (or so they say) so ping me if you're interested. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment31http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment31Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:28:09 GMTHi Ayende, I know someone has already mentioned it but have you considered ThoughtWorks? I'm the recruiter in the London office and would be happy to talk to about the types of work we do, and what ThoughtWorks is like "on the inside". Feel free to get in touch directly mbucklan@thoughtworks.com Matt http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment30http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment30Thu, 01 Nov 2007 13:52:55 GMTHi Oren If you decide you do want to stay here in Israel i have an opening which I'd be happy if you consider Arnon http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment29http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment29Thu, 01 Nov 2007 13:41:28 GMT> A degree wouldn't gain me much. Au contraire, it would gain you a significant lot. > I already know most of what it being thought there Therefore you would breeze through computer science courses, allowing you to spend more time working part-time for fun and money. Or conversely, working full-time, studying part-time. > I am not really fond of a piece of paper. A valuable piece of paper in the long run. Yes, you can argue, along with a Nobel Prize laureate for economics whose name a blissfully forget, that in the long run we all die. But he earned the prize partly because he was a professor at a renowned university. I doubt anybody would have bothered reading his papers if he didn't have a PhD. I would like to believe the suggestions some folks made about your working at Microsoft were made in jest. The MVC Framework is a one-time project that will end in a year or so. The people will be re-assigned and teams restructured. Unless I'm mistaken, Scott Hanselman doesn't own a college degree. But Signor Guthrie has allowed Mr. Hanselman, albeit intelligent and knowledgeable, to be a mere cheerleader. I've been dealing with Microsoft offices in three EU countries. Everybody, including receptionists, has a university degree. I know people at a Google shop in Europe. They all have degrees. You can work at an agile shop in Paris, La Paz or Perth without a degree. After a dozen years, you'll tire of it. You will want to play with your wife and children, too. You can strike out on your own without a degree and hope to be another Gates or Brin. If I were you, I'd look at the current situation as a turning point in my life. In fact, that's what happened to me when I was 25. I got an advanced degree and never regretted the time spent. There are more options open to me now than there were before. I can, technically and legally, live and work anywhere in North America and the EU. So I have. The US is still the best place for state-of-the-art projects that you seem to lust after. Therefore I suggested the US stratagem. You'd be able and allowed to combine both work and study easily in the States. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment28http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment28Thu, 01 Nov 2007 13:39:04 GMTGokham, If I could give some advice it would be "dont do it" ;-) http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment27http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment27Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:06:34 GMT@foobar If one evaluates Oren based on his degree, then Oren doesn't belong there IMO. @Oren I don't know if you're thinking US centric, but UK and ThoughtWorks would be a good option, as stated above. I'm sure you have seen the job ad in ALT.NET mailing list. I believe you should be talking to Hammet for pros and cons of running your own show, though, just to evaluate the possibility of it.. Maybe with some friends you can work with in Israel to share the managerial responsibility. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment26http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment26Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:28:27 GMTOren, We are looking for some energetic and agile people. With two small offices -- one in Paris and one in the SF Bay Area -- we are a far cry from MS, but we do some very interesting work in the energy industry. Lots of software being built for modeling and optimizations. We kind of have an R&D feel about us and often do analysis using models that we build. It is very interesting work. I don't believe that we have any policies concerning degrees; in fact, we are pretty flexible, generally, so we could probably figure something out. Let me know if you want more information. Take care. http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment25http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment25Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:48:43 GMTGood luck Oren! I may just want to add the obvious. Relocating is a tough decision. I have relocated several times around Europe and have studied, worked and lived away from home. At times it was extremely difficult making new bonds, finding new friends, not to mention not being able to replace those who mean most to us: family. A great job in a new country is always a promising perspective, but there's much to look out for. The culture at work (agile, DDD and so on) isn't the only culture to consider. The culture of your regular surroundings is far more important I believe and I've not managed to blend in to some countries I've lived in causing pain and dissatisfaction. Last but not least, as everyone seems to be chipping in their suggestions, I'd suggest any place in Europe as you have a wide choice of cultures, some great companies for you to consider and home wouldn't be too far away. I've recently made a move to the Czech Republic, not speaking the language, and so far I am loving it in every way imaginable. But it isn't because of the job; it is because it is similar to home, close to home and I find a culture I can easily relate to. I guess being happy in life makes being happy at work much easier. On a side-note regarding a U.S. visa, I've also had trouble obtaining an H1B and after some struggle, I simply reject ever working there. I think it is preposterous having lotteries for such matters. Either way, best of luck to you Oren and I sincerely wish you find a new opportunity that will accommodate you in every way you've hoped for! http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment24http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment24Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:52:51 GMTFirstly, congratulations are in order I believe, an opportunity to branch out into something new is certainly something that you should look forward to. On the degree front, I don't have one either. This is partly due to the value of a degree in different countries, where in the US a degree is almost mandatory for any reasonable job, and in the UK it is actually fairly rare. This is partly down to the diffent education system, where a degree in the UK is sustantially harder to achieve. Although for a UK work permit a degree is certainly a benefit (when I have employed staff from overseas it is a plus point), it isn't essential in the UK. However, given half a chance and different life circumstances I wouldn't live or work in the UK, so I cannot recommend it! SharePoint is becomming more prevalent everywhere. My current position is SharePoint based, despite me railing against it for a long time. And a large percentage of the calls I get for contracts are now focusing on my SharePoint skills. The contracts for SharePoint are also paying a good 50% more than standard .NET roles. It isn't a great platform to work in, makes a lot of standard things like TDD damn hard, but it is where the money is, and where a lot of the new developments are at the moment in the UK. If you want any further advice on the UK economy, feel free to drop me an email and I'll give you any help or guidance I can. Good luck! http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment23http://ayende.com/2926/seeking-individuals-and-interactions-over-processes-and-tools#comment23Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:48:18 GMT