http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660Thanks for the good advice Mats. http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment7http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment7Mon, 02 Jul 2007 07:31:37 GMT@ John "I wonder how many people out there have good ideas in the ORM space, but can't afford the time to build them for free..." Quite a number, I would imagine. But one thing I love about the "O/R scene" is that people actually share ideas in this space, meaning that you don't always have to write a new framework to see your good O/RM ideas become turned into reality, as long as you are willing to share them. Many of the O/R / IoC / AOP etc frameworks that are doing well are developed by people who are doing it in large part in response to their fascination with the subject. Finding some such developer to discuss your ideas with should often be at least as feasible as writing your own framework to try your ideas. Put up a blog, blog about your ideas and you're bound to get interest from more than one framework developer. Or, in the case of open source frameworks, why not just download the bits and use them as your starting platform to experiment on and see if you can work in your ideas? /Mats http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment6http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment6Sun, 01 Jul 2007 13:30:20 GMTIn my opinion building them for free is not the way to go as long as you are alone, in terms of time, money and support from others. If you are still then the project is still. First thing I would do if I wanted to start a new OS project I would try to involve someone else into it. http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment5http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment5Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:03:59 GMTI started writing my own - but never finished it. In terms of learning, and the satisfaction of doing something challenging and new, it was great fun. The difficulty was that, because it was going to take a significant amount of time, and because I have a family to provide for, I decided to try to earn some money from the exercise. This made everything more difficult (compared to just posting free code on my blog). In retrospect, it was inevitable that I should strike two problems: (a) People want free stuff. I'm reminded of nDoc - far more widely used than my ORM ever would have been, but still not financially self-supporting. (b) People want stuff from Microsoft, as above. So yes, I wanted to do it because it was fun - and it was. I also wanted to do it because I thought I had some good, unique ideas. In terms of functionality (especially ease of use) I did believe it could compete with nHiberate in my product's target market (which was WinForms development). Now, we'll never know whether I was right. I wonder how many people out there have good ideas in the ORM space, but can't afford the time to build them for free... http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment4http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment4Sun, 01 Jul 2007 05:29:38 GMTI am eagerly waiting to hear the reasoning behind _that_. Was that on Windows, or some obscure UI platform? http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment3http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment3Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:55:54 GMTWell, writing something from scratch is probably a good way of learning something... the deal lies in avoiding to do it for everything! http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment2http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment2Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:52:20 GMT"I once had a client reject NHibernate and ask me to build their own custom OR/M implementation, because it didn't come from Microsoft, and they had a policy that all their stuff is either Microsoft or their own. NIH in its purest form" Naah, I once worked in a place where I even had to code the standard (windows forms) buttons (hover effect and everything), menus etc :) Arnon http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment1http://ayende.com/2609/what-would-you-say-if-i-wanted-to-write-my-own-or-m-ioc-web-framework-etc#comment1Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:11:04 GMT