http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660No! I Am HUGO! (sorry it just seemed a little Spartacus like!) (no, really, Hugo is spot on) http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment9http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment9Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:27:28 GMTFrans, the answer is yes. If you built it using TDD it will be easy to "refactor the crap out of it" as long as the edges stays the same and the behaviour does to. Here is where IoC and interface based programming really excels. For chunks of legacy data where no tests have been don before, it is really vital that you wire up some tests that will ensure the behaviour of the current code base before doing any refactoring or changes. Robert Martin describes that process in "Working effectively with Legacy Code" (http://www.amazon.com/Working-Effectively-Legacy-Robert-Martin/dp/0131177052) http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment8http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment8Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:50:55 GMTWhat I miss a bit is why TDD is in the same scope as DSLs... DSLs often solve a slightly different problem than TDD does, or better: they're used to solve more problems than TDD does. I have to agree that MS should do more in the TDD / agile department: they're now IMHO too much focussed on the drag/drop programming RAD-oholics of this world. However, that's not to say that TDD/Agile is how every software application should be written: in a lot of applications, TDD is simply not useful. Food for another discussion: 90+% of the time/money today spend on an application from birth to death is spend on maintenance. What I'd like to see is how the TDD/Agile movement addresses the problem of maintenance. The main issue is that because a version is already out there, refactoring the crap out of an existing codebase isn't going to be possible, so how is TDD holding up in that kind of environments? Is it then really the silver bullet everyone should be using? I mean: after 2 years in production, no-one ever remembers the post-it notes on the board when the app was made. Not that RAD-oholics with their mouse-movements are in a better position though, far from it. http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment7http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment7Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:44:06 GMTI think the entire concept of "Alpha geek" is not used in it's original meaning: http://dotmad.blogspot.com/2007/06/alpha-geeks-and-morts.html http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment6http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment6Sat, 16 Jun 2007 22:20:28 GMTI am Hugo too. None of the DevDiv archetypes represent me at all but Hugo does. http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment5http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment5Sat, 16 Jun 2007 22:10:06 GMTI am Hugo: http://codebetter.com/blogs/scott.bellware/archive/2006/02/08/137715.aspx http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment4http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment4Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:21:05 GMTthis is a nice WTF moment for me... I always thought the alpha geeks were the ones using TDD, DDD, agile and generaly alt.net stuff. And the morts were doing BDUF and waterfall with all the best microsoft tools they could get. I'm trying hard to lose my mort status by reading your blog and heading into uncharted territories (uncharted by microsoft that is) and doing all those things people in the smalltalk community have been doing for years and just when i'm getting close someone decides i'm mort again... http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment3http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment3Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:08:02 GMTHi Sam, Your comments are there now, along with some responses. I always prescreen the comments that come in to my blog because I get SO MUCH comment spam. --- Nick http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment2http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment2Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:56:38 GMTThank you. I have no idea what he was talking about and my comments don't show up there http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment1http://ayende.com/2568/redefining-reality#comment1Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:16:19 GMT