http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660Yup I'd like to see an Igloo UI. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment29http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment29Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:07:43 GMTyou could try just use nUnit or whatever to drive the code without any UI. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment28http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment28Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:19:38 GMTA MonoRail example would be great. Your existing MR screencast is very nice, but it would be even better to see an advanced usage. We get even more juicy info on alternative technologies this way, too, instead of more W__forms stuff :-). http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment27http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment27Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:59:06 GMTwebforms to: 1) help focus on one thing at a time 2) keep the comparison going, as Rob will most likely use webforms But of course future webcasts on helping break free of webforms are welcome! http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment26http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment26Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:44:20 GMTStefan, I just had to say that :) :) Well, anyway... glad if it helped. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment25http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment25Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:49:27 GMTI have Adam's book here, I am on chapter 3 for the last three months or so :-) Actually, my idea for WPF app is an NHibernate profiler. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment24http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment24Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:27:41 GMTWhy do you think I suggested it? I have this "Apps = Code + markup" sitting on my table, staring at me. I could use a faster, more painless introduction :-) Yeah, call me lazy. I know... :-p http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment23http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment23Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:22:40 GMTHammett, Good suggestion, but I don't actually have any experience there, so that would be a fairly bad screen cast. :-D http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment22http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment22Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:07:06 GMTWPF :-) http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment21http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment21Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:40:23 GMTMonorail.... Don't focus on the UI but rather the Domain and Service layer. It would be a nice contribution to the monorail project without having to dive into great detail. A strong domain and service layer and almost any UI, maybe not webforms, would be fairly easy to plug in. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment20http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment20Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:15:47 GMTVladan, if you think the description "hibernating rhinos" should have tipped me off, you have obviously more phantasy than I do. Thanks anyway! http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment19http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment19Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:21:56 GMTI see the arguments for webforms as a way to more directly compare the data access techniques, but I agree with Paul Wilson that this is a great opportunity to show how you'd approach the whole problem with your usual toolbox. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment18http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment18Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:06:14 GMTHmm... Look on this site? http://www.ayende.com/hibernating-rhinos.aspx http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment17http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment17Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:14:55 GMTwhere can i find that episode? http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment16http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment16Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:00:45 GMTTo be fair, that was an episode that was mostly about comparing MonoRail to webforms http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment15http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment15Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:12:44 GMTYeap, I agree with Vladan. Ayende had demonstrated Monorail on episode 2. How about web form for this one? http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment14http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment14Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:06:07 GMTAyende, could you describe in a short paragraph what igloo is about? And what state the project is in - I gather you are not too fond of WebForms anyway... Thanks! http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment13http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment13Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:49:20 GMTPaul and Dave... Did you take a look at previous Hibernating Rhinos episodes? In one of them (second I think) Oren already shows the MonoRail. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment12http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment12Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:27:25 GMTI'd like to see Monorail. I already know WebForms enough, so lets so the entire OSS stack that is frequently used. It'll make a great example. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment11http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment11Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:23:11 GMTThere is already for MonoRail.... check out the previous Rhinos episodes... For Igloo as mentioned... there is only source code. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment10http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment10Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:04:38 GMTI'd prefer to see it in Monorail. I see enough crappy WebForm stuff at work! http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment9http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment9Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:57:04 GMTOnly source code http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment8http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment8Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:48:46 GMTIs there any info on rhino igloo right now? I tried to google for it, but found only source code. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment7http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment7Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:43:36 GMTI thought I would write a full reply for a change :) http://aspadvice.com/blogs/insane_world/archive/2007/06/13/Should-Ayende-Rise-To-Rob_2700_s-Challenge_3F00_.aspx http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment6http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment6Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:00:09 GMTWould be great to see in Hibernating Rhinos episode a full application (some small one) using NHib with Rhino Commons and Igloo... That would be one I would show and re-show to my dev team :) Wow... that would be great :) http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment5http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment5Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:07:50 GMTI'm pretty sure I put the bug in Rob's ear about this. I think you guys have both held an intelligent, enlightening discussion, and I told him I'd love to see how you both solved the same problem in a screencast (since he's done great SubSonic screencasts on his blog and you've done great screencasts for DNRTV). My vote would be for WebForms so we've got a more straightforward comparison of data access technologies. I'm kind of torn on this because I'd love to see how you'd approach the entire problem, but I think your data access approach might be less clear if you use a completely different stack. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment4http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment4Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:35:30 GMTWhat about using CAB? :D http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment3http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment3Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:23:12 GMTThis is the chance to unleash Igloo heheh.. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment2http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment2Wed, 13 Jun 2007 05:35:10 GMTWebForms please. Don't introduce too many new concepts at once. http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment1http://ayende.com/2554/how-to-answer-the-or-m-challenge#comment1Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:59:46 GMT