http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660Disclaimer - I haven't used ASP.NET AJAX, and I don't know how deeply you've gone into it, so apologies if I'm saying stuff you've tried. From presentations, it seems like ASP.NET AJAX binds its extender-events/etc using the onload event, which means it waits for all images to load. What you might want to look into is hooking them onto the domcontentloaded (undocumented) event. jQuery's $(document).ready(function() { /* doInitStuff */ }); would appear to be useful to you, either directly or via illustration of how to hook onto that event. Reference: http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2005/02/order-of-events/ http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2005/09/busted/ http://www.visualjquery.com -> events -> ready(fn) http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment9http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment9Tue, 08 May 2007 13:47:07 GMTYes, you are right - you have to do alot of work just to get a simple control. It's like you can't go mainstream. I hope with the new NHibernate version out that Castle will update their .msi - I'm looking forward to giving it another spin :) http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment8http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment8Fri, 04 May 2007 19:43:55 GMTI find that the reason that controls are so popular in WebForms over most other platforms is because the WebForms framework make it very hard to build them correctly. You need to handle so many issues that it is simply not worth it. When I need to do something like masked edit I search for it, usually appending javascript to it. I got this link to this page from, for instance: http://archive.devx.com/dhtml/articles/nz012402/nz012402-3.asp There is a wealth of really good stuff that you can readily use if WebForms weren't in your way. http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment7http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment7Fri, 04 May 2007 19:12:50 GMTThanks. I think that I one of the reasons we buy Telerik, for example vs. coding up ViewComponents (ie. MaskedEditInput) is because the time to develop the control is more expensive than just buying the control. I haven't seen many examples of the WebForms with Monorail. I'll have to try it. Believe me, I'd rather not use it either, but the project management wouldn't want to see me recreating controls we have already purchased. I've been looking at the code from http://www.codeproject.com/aspnet/NHibernateBestPractices.asp and using the MVP how it is being used in the Enterprise sample. However, it hasn't taken me long to see how beneficial the MR approach could be. I guess I want the best of both worlds :) How bad is the Webform approach in MR ? http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment6http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment6Fri, 04 May 2007 00:30:31 GMTYou can use WebForms controls in MonoRail by using the WebForms view engine. I wouldn't recommend it myself, because it it still keeping a lot of the baggage of WebForms anyway. UpdatePanel in MonoRail is handled using Ajax.Updater and sub views, most often. Controls in MonoRail are called ViewComponents, and much simpler to write. You can use the ASP.Net Ajax stuff, but as this post shows, it is not a good approach in my book. http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment5http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment5Thu, 03 May 2007 17:16:55 GMTA bit off topic (ok, way off topic): I've been wanting to do a project I have with Monorail. Except we also need to take advantage of controls already built (ie. Telerik, maskinput control). Also, speaking of asp.net ajax, there are a few cases where I want to use an UpdatePanel. (Very sparingly mind you). That being said, how would I approach this in Monorail? Is there a way to use a Telerik control (or any 3rd party control) in Monorail? I've created my own extenders with the Ajax.net toolkit and it's very powerful and quick to do. http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment4http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment4Thu, 03 May 2007 11:57:51 GMTHi, I second what Ayende says. ASP.NET Ajax has seveal problems by design including performance and size. Concerning the OnInitialized event. This is something you find on many Javascript/AJAX libraries including Prototype, JQuery, Dojo, Mootools or YUI. They all have an OnLoad() event trigerred has soon as the page is available, so you can initialize your stuff there. Another option right know could be to switch to a solution like the Ajax Gaïa Widgets that is made for .NET 2.0 (can't remember the URL). Cheers. http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment3http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment3Wed, 02 May 2007 21:52:07 GMTI am glad that you think this is funny. I have some code for you to debug :-) There is such an event, it is the load event of the page. The problem is that the page is usable before that (by design). http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment2http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment2Wed, 02 May 2007 17:21:28 GMTHandling race conditions in JavaScript?! Thats almost funny - in a very sick way. I imagine that this will only become more common as more and more devs start using AJAX frameworks. Like it or not, AJAX is asynchronous which implies multi-threaded programming. Jeff Atwood makes the case that you would have to get this down from 1 second to 0.1 second for users not to notice the delay: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000722.html Too bad there isn't an OnInitialized event or something in JavaScript, where basically the page is not interactive until after the page is fully initialized. Maybe you could simulate this with a script at the very bottom of the page setting a flag that disallows the page to be submitted or anything else, like an ASP.NET validator for page loads. http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment1http://ayende.com/2354/asp-net-ajax-performance-and-race-conditions-oh-my#comment1Wed, 02 May 2007 17:05:05 GMT