http://ayende.comAyende @ RahienCopyright (C) Ayende Rahien 2004 - 2021 (c) 202660not to say your overall point necessarily isn't valid, but doesn't ADO.NET/WCF Data Services/OData still use the EDM?http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment15http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment15Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:37:26 GMTHey I know exactly wha you are talking about. We once choose NHibernate over EF based on the assumption that it will have usable LINQ provider in version 3.http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment14http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment14Sat, 29 Oct 2011 16:07:47 GMT@ashic we once used recaptha on a client's website, but had to replace it because there were so many complaints from visitors who found the text in the images unreadable or too hard to enter on a keyboard.http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment13http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment13Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:00:50 GMT@Adron: I know, I know...what I meant was people did HTML5 a couple of years back. Back then it was in a state as bad as early EF days. Not saying I don't agree with the article though. I actually do use EF code first for quick and dirty CRUD. It's not ideal, but it's good enough. For complex or mildly complex stuff, I choose to use event sourcing. If a relational model is complex enough to "exceed" EF Code First, it's a sign of one-model-to-rule-them-all :) @ayende: Dude, your recaptchas are killing me here...any chance of taking a difference approach?http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment12http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment12Wed, 26 Oct 2011 05:44:51 GMTYawn, smack, smack, zzzzz... Bob and KISS win again. ADO.NET and SQL still work as well as they ever did. http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment11http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment11Wed, 26 Oct 2011 03:04:48 GMTNHibernate is a much more mature product that benefited from lots of experience in the field from many folks. It simply has extension points that Entity framework doesn't currently support. Perhaps in time, it will provide a better extension mechanism as was the case with code first support. Ayende, didn't MS give these some long range plans as the reason for not throwing its support behind NHibernate? Something to do with not wanting their "one model" plan to be based on open source software that they don't own. The same way they supported jquery, they couldn't have provided some support to NHibernate. http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment10http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment10Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:29:22 GMT@Adron: How is NHibernate better then EF Code First?http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment9http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment9Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:18:27 GMT@Adron: EF has credibility? Since when?http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment8http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment8Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:12:51 GMTashic -> HTML5 is already here. Regardless of the idea that there is or is not an official spec. It doesn't matter. The correlation is highly unfounded. The EF started as one thing, and had to completely alter itself. In so many ways it started as a joke, and only now has some credibility. HTML5 is a spec, of basically a bunch of stuff people already knew they wanted and would get. It is about collaboration, where as the EF wasn't. Just pointing out, that the two are apples and oranges. Interesting to see EF in its current state, versus the plight Microsoft originally gave it. I called BS then and am glad I did. I'd have sunk more than one ship if I'd ran with it back then. I use it now, some, but primarily as a quick and dirty CRUD generator. Otherwise I still use NHibernate or other options (re: Object/Graph/Doc Databases). Great write up and quoting of tech history! ;)http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment7http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment7Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:58:49 GMTInexperiences programmers often tend to do too much generalization because "it saves so much code". But experience tells that once you have an exception to the general case it can be very hard to get out. Their grand vision of "one data model" reminds me of that. http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment6http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment6Tue, 25 Oct 2011 13:00:17 GMTWhat you say is surely true. It makes no sense to build anything that depends on planned things for the future. Even Microsoft sometimes comes back down to earth and starts refocusing on reallity. But this must not in any case be a bad thing. If I look at EF today, I think it is a good and easy to use OR/M with a versatile team and community behind it. Sure, nobody knows how it will develop in the future, but as you say, you will never know, no matter what product you use... http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment5http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment5Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:49:37 GMTVery well put. Then again, if you are one of the few to gamble well ahead, and it does pay off, you win. http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment4http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment4Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:41:19 GMTI agree, "The Best Way to Predict the Future is to Create it" -- Abraham Lincoln -- s.http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment3http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment3Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:34:01 GMTNot meaning to play devil's advocate here, but....erm...did...errr....somebody say HTML5?http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment2http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment2Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:33:49 GMTGlad to see this post after our discussions in kharkov :) 5 year plans either don't work or you alter reality to fit them.http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment1http://ayende.com/128001/entity-framework-the-five-years-plan-and-building-software-on-future-features#comment1Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:21:45 GMT